"gzdesign" (gzdesign)
04/23/2014 at 11:00 • Filed to: Toyota Celica, VW Scirocco, Porsche 911, University
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"gzdesign" (gzdesign)
04/23/2014 at 11:00 • Filed to: Toyota Celica, VW Scirocco, Porsche 911, University | 1
| 9 |
A really nice Toyota...
..and a couple of beefed-up VWs. (a beefed-up Golf and a beefed-up Beetle, in case you hadn't noticed)
Bad Idea Hat
> gzdesign
04/23/2014 at 11:04 |
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You know, that really is a nice Beetle.
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Bad Idea Hat
04/23/2014 at 11:06 |
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Yeah, that Scirrocco is a nice flattened New Beetle. ;-)
Jagvar
> gzdesign
04/23/2014 at 11:06 |
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I'm pretty sure that's a Lambo.
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Bad Idea Hat
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/23/2014 at 11:14 |
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HEY WAIT A MINUTE
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> gzdesign
04/23/2014 at 11:15 |
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Why the hell can't there be a car like Celica GT-Four / All-trac on the market today?
EVEN JUST ONE AWD SPORT COUPE.
And make it a 3-door like that ST160 Celica, or an Audi S1 or S2 Quattro, not with a dinky little un-useable trunk lid.
Not from Toyota, not from Subaru, not from Mitsubishi, or any other brand... and Audis are too damn expensive anywhere near new, as luxury cars.
JUST ONE. FWD sucks on wet/loose/slick surfaces. RWD is a significant risk, even if it behaves itself 90% of the time... the other 10% can get out of control and wreck the car.
AWD is superior in any condition other than dry pavement, and pretty darn good there, too, especially fully-proactive 3-diff AWD, like Subaru offers on WRX.
Yes, it may still slightly under-steer with the engine hanging off the front (transverse like Toyota/Mitsu or longitudinal like Audi/Subaru), but center differential torque biasing and rear axle torque vectoring can do wonderful things.
Some people would really like a sport coupe, but a torque-monster V8 Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger is too expensive to be that risky when driving in the winter, and can't justify that much money on a fair-weather-only driver... but would love a sport coupe that is an all-season road-superiority fighter.
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gzdesign
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/23/2014 at 11:49 |
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Well, you can always buy a Golf GTI and try not to look at its back too much!
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> gzdesign
04/23/2014 at 14:21 |
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Golf GTI is, and always has been FWD. R32 was AWD, and nearly as expensive as an A5 or TT is anyway.
But it is so boxy, why bother with the 3-door version, and just get the extra doors... the profile doesn't change. 2 Door coupes are supposed to have aero and aesthetic advantages, not look like the crate that a Polo came in.
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gzdesign
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/24/2014 at 07:05 |
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My bad, since S3s have Quattro, I assumed MK7 GTIs had that option too.
Anyhow, I think this kind of cars you are talking about sadly just won't happen because if all brands are developing complex electronic systems to fight FWD torque-steering instead of resorting to engineer compact 4wd systems in the sportier variants of their FWD hatchbacks (not only this GTI, but I'm thinking Focus RS, Mégane RS) then the chance of developing similar systems for coupés which most of them aren't even sold with a high-output variant is highly unlikely.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> gzdesign
04/24/2014 at 13:28 |
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...for coupés, which most of them aren't even sold with a high-output variant...
There is another problem, possibly a more inherent one.
High output variants of cars with the least-sporty body style, while the sportier looking, lighter-weight coupe body styles, if they even exist at all, are not offered with the high output drivetrains, nor the sport option suspensions...
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH CAR COMPANIES?
All the ones you mention...
Plus: Mitsubishi won't make an EVO-based or even RalliArt based Eclipse to try to save their own brand from sinking like a stone...
Subaru... Building low-powered RWD coupes at Toyota's behest, while not building an AWD coupe by the brand that has made it's modern reputation on the advantages of real AWD in car body styles rather than SUVs.
Toyota... not building sporty coupes for YEARS... then co-opting Subaru to do their work for them, not basing it on one of their actually GOOD former sport coupe models, like Celica, Supra, or MR2, but on their econo-box AE86 Corolla, which was basically a stick-axle hold-over from the E70 corolla generation...
Now that the FT-86 bloom is off the rose a bit, and the hype has subsided, and people are realizing that the novelty has worn off... and they just have a torque-less and very cramped little car... the calls for more power in the chassis that can handle it, is met by outright refusal from Toyota to include a higher-output engine on a sport coupe that could seriously use it. No convertible roof, either.
Hyundai has a good car with odd looks, and a luxury-sub-brand name without the luxury, the Genesis Coupe... and wonders why it doesn't sell.
Kia could put AWD and a turbocharged engine under their Forte Koup, from the Sportage Turbo... possibly even with a 6-speed manual in the mix... but they don't.
VW could put the S3 2.0T and haldex-AWD drivetrain under a Turbo Beetle, or a Scirrocco body, and import it to the US... but they don't either. Wouldn't want to show how BADLY over-priced the TT is by offering 90% of the same car, at 55-60% of the retail price, without all the high-design touches, and a bit less aluminum in the structure, and the profit margin markup.
I would love to consider a 2015 Mustang, now that it is getting a competent rear suspension for the condition of public roads... but I still would be reticent to drive it in the winter, and risk ditching a daily-driver new car with an evasive maneuver on a slick surface.
But I would have much less worry about a car with AWD in those same conditions, and would be more willing to use that as my year-round daily driver, for the same sort of money spent.
But there aren't any new AWD sport coupes under $30-35K to compete with the RWD Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Genesis or even BRZ/FRS, let alone as an alternative to the other FWD coupes, either.
Audi could have done it with the Sport Quattro concept, as a spartan 3-door coupe version of the standard A4 2.0T 6-speed Quattro, and moved A5 just as it is to be more in-line with the luxury and pricing of the A6 and A7 Sportback. But no.
So many car companies COULD do something truly interesting. The hype over BRZ/FRS, the possibility of a new Supra, the C7 Corvette, the 2015 Mustang... all show that coupes get headlines, and still turn heads. But why can't they actually BUILD AND SELL something truly compelling? A great value proposition that isn't under-powered, or otherwise over-weight, or otherwise over-priced for what you get... and that LOOKS TIMELESSLY GOOD.